Regarding Changes on Champion Class

GM Team,


Good Day!


i would kindly ask a request regarding the changes in champions skills due to the recent update (dated June 25, 2012).. if it would be possible to please make a thorough study with regards in considering to enable the bloodbull and primal rage skills when a shield has been equiped.. so as to maximize the tanking capabilities of the champion class since champs were made to tank intentionally..



i do understand that in order for champs to play different modes, they have the ability to switch different equips to serve a different purpose such as:

***dual swords = high max atk but lower its def and hp (can be pawned in seconds since low dodge, needless to say tanks like paper)

***two handed swords = low max atk but get high hp and defence (still breakable to be honest)

***1 hand sword + shield = much lower max atk, more pr, but primal rage and bloodbull skills dissabled..



it would be nice if you can kindly consider my humble request to enable atleast bloodbull and primal rage when a shield is equiped.. atleast to serve a champion's purpose when tanking.. may you find this request favorable to your end as well.. thank you very much.. godbless..




best regards,

PACAPLOGjr

PS: can you also please consider "enabling great sword mastery" when using shield or dual one handed swords.. thanks..

The reason why Blood bull is only available with 2-Handed weapons IS to compensate the defense decrease when NOT on shield (while 2-Handed weapon is equipped). Enabling the skill with shield just contradicts its use in the first place.

Hello its me again (:

why not just make champs cant wear shield?? instead of making us 2h sword?? even full con without shield champs are breakable... if u can discuss the issue will be great!

Ty again for ur time.

i agree with paca, most of the ppl say champs are op but now check if we are op with 2h sword ?? how i can kill with lower max a high gemed voy full con if he tanks me?? or a cler o sm?? so theres only 2 ways for us to fight, decent max but getting killed like a paper or tank ( with dk effect impossible to tank) but not killing any1... btw i have seen alot of non champs user tanking better than a champ so whos op??

thnx for ur time

joo nvm la they nvr listen to us

yeah i know i post like 5 time and gm nevear hear me and just delet my post... but i told tell what about non champion players tanking better than us??? they arent op rite.....? so now we tank we dont kill or we kill but we get killed like a paper...

***BETTER SOLUTION FOR THIS CHAMP PROBLEM***

----> LET CHIP RAGE CAN BE FORGE TO GLOVE

+ 1 FOR THIS IDEA

Champs went back to normal. if u cant tank a same gemmed crus or ss then 2n handed bloodbull should be checked.. but if u have lvl 4 azzes and u cant tank 14k max then its not "problem"

they should reset all champs skils
because im sure champs had their
great sword mastery lvl 3 because
they dont need it
now we do because only gr8t sword can activate
bloodbull and primal rage
reseting all champs skills
or giving us free skill reset book
would be a big help to start over

GM Team,

Good Day!

i would like to kindly inquire if possible to enable great sword mastery when "dual swords are equiped" (atleast to compensate the drastic lost in defence)..

or if possible, as ive read in your previous post, that the GM Team will make further adjustments (in terms of providing more max atk) on two handed swords.. i would kindly inquire if great sword mastery for normal players will increase? or if more bonus max atk in great sword mastery for "legend" will also be increased? or you will increase base damage (min-max) of two handed swords?

hoping you find everything in order, thank you very much..



best regards,

PACAPLOGjr

SrJoo who tanks better than champs and is op? +1 for paca.. thought i havent seen any with lvl 85 fused 2 handed sword or lvl 95 good gemmed to see the max.. i see only lvl 75s with shadows for now. But anyway with this change lots wanna go 2Handed so their gems on weaps.especially if they are with lvl 9s. will be kinda useless.so they need lots of cash again to remake a decent weapon

tanking better than a champ.. yes and 1 is u.. tanking more tank 10k... so why just ppl say champs op when are other non champs op.... u can sy cus im high gemmed nice items... ok its ok for me but its the same for champs we work for our high def in (gemms, gr and other stuff like u) and well champs are created to tank.. not a ss or crus

and well i havent seen any champs with uns 85 or 95 high gemmed... but just check this, i got and un 85 1.handed sword less than a month around 3 weeks... and now with no reason a drastic change do u think is fair? and i ask for an exchange and they never even say me no...

GM Team,

Good Day!

i would kindly ask, if it would be fair to disable "Frenzy" and "Deftness" skills on crusader's when they equip "Shield"? just to be fair.. since when a crus wear's shield no one can break them, specially when they use con ajr + poss.. aside from having huge amount of defence and physical resistance, they also have high attack speed and dodge.. which enable them to dodge all melee attacks and nuke people with ease..

i find this Over Powered (my personal opinion only) since they tank more than most of the champion's ingame (champ's got less attack speed and dodge rate to tank and nuke people efficiently like most of the crusader's).. i find this fair, not only it just so happen champ's got adjustment, but also bare in mind that champ's were supposedly build to tank more efficiently.. but with this issue at hand, it seems that crusader's tank more than a champ does..

hoping you find my request favorable to the extent of your knowledge and belief.. thank you very much..



best regards,

PACAPLOGjr

To go against your argument, Would you like to disable wind walk and rousing on an ss when in bow mode, or vigor for a cleric and sm too?
The effects for the recent champion change are because those two skills were not enabled for shield use by a champion in the official, as the gm said "were mistakenly 'bugged/activated' and were never supposed to be for a dual wield.

Whereas crusader was built for shield and sword or dual sword, you can argue the fact, but crusaders tank as much as clerics and that isn't much, SS on the other hand…
Crazy pr and def with insane movement and attack, there are ss's out there that tank 8k max with dk effect.

Most champs still tank 8k max with dk effect in con mode, that is considerate, they even tank towers in sw still.

You aren't possessing much of an argument for these changes to take effect.
You want ne-rfing of the crusader class on something that hasn't changed from the official.

I don't mind the high dodge and high attack speed. However, I think that the GMs shouldn't be referring to the real server too often. What they should target, imo, is to be a private server, modifying it so that they can develop a loyal player base. In other words, make EO unique. There won't be a point of playing EO when you can simply play the official server if EO continues to align it's future changes to ToP/PKO's style.

xMayy wrote:To go against your argument, Would you like to disable wind walk and rousing on an ss when in bow mode, or vigor for a cleric and sm too?
The effects for the recent champion change are because those two skills were not enabled for shield use by a champion in the official, as the gm said "were mistakenly 'bugged/activated' and were never supposed to be for a dual wield.

Whereas crusader was built for shield and sword or dual sword, you can argue the fact, but crusaders tank as much as clerics and that isn't much, SS on the other hand…
Crazy pr and def with insane movement and attack, there are ss's out there that tank 8k max with dk effect.

Most champs still tank 8k max with dk effect in con mode, that is considerate, they even tank towers in sw still.

You aren't possessing much of an argument for these changes to take effect.
You want ne-rfing of the crusader class on something that hasn't changed from the official.

Hey xMayy you're awesome! FOR THE WIN! ur awesome, hahaha!!!!!!!!!!! nuff said

Brok3n wrote:I don't mind the high dodge and high attack speed. However, I think that the GMs shouldn't be referring to the real server too often. What they should target, imo, is to be a private server, modifying it so that they can develop a loyal player base. In other words, make EO unique. There won't be a point of playing EO when you can simply play the official server if EO continues to align it's future changes to ToP/PKO's style.

I agree, but then again, they would have to modify all classes or this same argument happens every time.

Not my server xD
Let's just see what the GM Team does

"The effects for the recent champion change are because those two skills
were not enabled for shield use by a champion in the official, as the gm
said "were mistakenly 'bugged/activated' and were never supposed to be
for a dual wield."

if it was a mistake..why would it be active for a long time rather than deactivated it back?

IzzHzz wrote:"The effects for the recent champion change are because those two skills
were not enabled for shield use by a champion in the official, as the gm
said "were mistakenly 'bugged/activated' and were never supposed to be
for a dual wield."

if it was a mistake..why would it be active for a long time rather than deactivated it back?

They were deactivated due to new skill tree, and many went against it, therefor it got reverted.
this time it has been changed back, with out new skills tree, making it even.

IzzHzz wrote:"The effects for the recent champion change are because those two skills
were not enabled for shield use by a champion in the official, as the gm
said "were mistakenly 'bugged/activated' and were never supposed to be
for a dual wield."

if it was a mistake..why would it be active for a long time rather than deactivated it back?

so true sx.. well said..


anyways, did i hit you hard this time elise? or was it ur bias to urself cause ur crus? think about it.. put urself into my shoes, and so is the rest of the champ class out there.. and btw im not making an argument here.. its just a humble request.. youre the only one who see's this as an argument cause ur affected.. didnt see you burp about the changes in champs simply cause ur not one.. and now im posting some request for a crus and ur nerfing on my post.. no offence, but try to put urself in the position that im in..

xMayy wrote:

They were deactivated due to new skill tree, and many went against it, therefor it got reverted.
this time it has been changed back, with out new skills tree, making it even.

since the beginning it was already like this elise.. before the new skill tree had been made bloodbull and primal rage were already activated when using dual weild..

I'm not effected I stand for all classes, actually, your request is completed.
When a crusader uses shield, the dodge rate from deftness is halved, and blood frenzy is disabled because it does not have dual swords.

I have put my self in your shoes, have you put your self in any other classes shoes?
I guess not cause every champ calls a magic use op, why cause they do full strength damage on you?

I'm not nerfing, you are the one asking for the nerfing. Which is already enabled in game, I just don't think you understand how those skills work?


from the beginning, i never said since that skill tree that skill popped up. i'm saying it was DEACTIVATED at that time.

xMayy wrote:I'm not effected I stand for all classes, actually, your request is completed.
When a crusader uses shield, the dodge rate from deftness is halved, and blood frenzy is disabled because it does not have dual swords.

I have put my self in your shoes, have you put your self in any other classes shoes?
I guess not cause every champ calls a magic use op, why cause they do full strength damage on you?

I'm not nerfing, you are the one asking for the nerfing. Which is already enabled in game, I just don't think you understand how those skills work?


from the beginning, i never said since that skill tree that skill popped up. i'm saying it was DEACTIVATED at that time.

first off, did u really understand what ive posted?

second, im not asking for half, im asking for full dissabled of those skills.. are you really even sure it is halved? or its just that you lost the dodge rate from the sword youve taken out in replacement of the shield? talking about who knows who.. moving on..

third, in which part of my previous post did i said magic's are OP?

fourth, did u really put ur shoes into the position im in? really? u serious?

and lastly, am i the one really nerfing? like seriously? cause as i read again on these post which had been made, i think its you who is the one in rage and nerfing.. like i said, im requesting humbly from the GM Team.. so i guess look who is talking now elise?


FOR EVERYONE: if you wanna put more spice and flames in this thread ive posted, you are very much welcome to do so.. but since if you have nothing good to say, just keep ur opinions to urselves and ignore my post.. this is my request not yours.. instead of seeking more attention which doesnt solve any problems at all, just try to give out better ideas if u find my post worthless of youre time..

PACAPLOG wrote:

xMayy wrote:I'm not effected I stand for all classes, actually, your request is completed.
When a crusader uses shield, the dodge rate from deftness is halved, and blood frenzy is disabled because it does not have dual swords.

I have put my self in your shoes, have you put your self in any other classes shoes?
I guess not cause every champ calls a magic use op, why cause they do full strength damage on you?

I'm not nerfing, you are the one asking for the nerfing. Which is already enabled in game, I just don't think you understand how those skills work?


from the beginning, i never said since that skill tree that skill popped up. i'm saying it was DEACTIVATED at that time.

first off, did u really understand what ive posted?

second, im not asking for half, im asking for full dissabled of those skills.. are you really even sure it is halved? or its just that you lost the dodge rate from the sword youve taken out in replacement of the shield? talking about who knows who.. moving on..

third, in which part of my previous post did i said magic's are OP?

fourth, did u really put ur shoes into the position im in? really? u serious?

and lastly, am i the one really nerfing? like seriously? cause as i read again on these post which had been made, i think its you who is the one in rage and nerfing.. like i said, im requesting humbly from the GM Team.. so i guess look who is talking now elise?


FOR EVERYONE: if you wanna put more spice and flames in this thread ive posted, you are very much welcome to do so.. but since if you have nothing good to say, just keep ur opinions to urselves and ignore my post.. this is my request not yours.. instead of seeking more attention which doesnt solve any problems at all, just try to give out better ideas if u find my post worthless of youre time..

Hey Pacaplog, you mad bro? It's certainly I seem that you are!

You won't understand how hard for non-maller players to farm not like you PACA, wasting hundreds of fucking DC

First of ALL PACA did not mall. he farmed.


This topic has been a big issue since BSO time.
You would also have to consider that champs, crus, ss and such are all different factors.

Champs having high HP & Max is really at an advantage.
Crusaders if they want to tank, they would have to switch and so forth.. its either one or the other.
SS; is what i find amazing. tanking without a shield. kudos for you guys.

These 3 classes are all different.

If we were to go what people wanted. to clarify this , it would be like this

Champs ===> tankers NO max
Crusaders =====> Main killers
Sharpshooters =====> Far Range killers & LOW HP
Voyagers ==== > Land & Sea support magic class [normally ignored]
Sealmaster ====> Sealers Supporters [normally ignored]
Clerics ====> Healers buffers supporters.


GMs made changes based on majority rule.. Basicly mostly only champs were not supporting the change...
This whole topic is really complicated itself.. i am not saying i support the changes made on champs, nor am i saying i will agree that crusaders should get their skill nullified.

As for as i am concerned, or i heard that crusaders did not get any bonuses like cleric and sm increased bolt rate, stun on bolt from voyagers or anything. I do not see the nessesity to nullify their skill based on your frustrations from the actions made on your class.

PACAPLOG wrote:

xMayy wrote:I'm not effected I stand for all classes, actually, your request is completed.
When a crusader uses shield, the dodge rate from deftness is halved, and blood frenzy is disabled because it does not have dual swords.

I have put my self in your shoes, have you put your self in any other classes shoes?
I guess not cause every champ calls a magic use op, why cause they do full strength damage on you?

I'm not nerfing, you are the one asking for the nerfing. Which is already enabled in game, I just don't think you understand how those skills work?


from the beginning, i never said since that skill tree that skill popped up. i'm saying it was DEACTIVATED at that time.

first off, did u really understand what ive posted?

second, im not asking for half, im asking for full dissabled of those skills.. are you really even sure it is halved? or its just that you lost the dodge rate from the sword youve taken out in replacement of the shield? talking about who knows who.. moving on..

third, in which part of my previous post did i said magic's are OP?

fourth, did u really put ur shoes into the position im in? really? u serious?

and lastly, am i the one really nerfing? like seriously? cause as i read again on these post which had been made, i think its you who is the one in rage and nerfing.. like i said, im requesting humbly from the GM Team.. so i guess look who is talking now elise?


FOR EVERYONE: if you wanna put more spice and flames in this thread ive posted, you are very much welcome to do so.. but since if you have nothing good to say, just keep ur opinions to urselves and ignore my post.. this is my request not yours.. instead of seeking more attention which doesnt solve any problems at all, just try to give out better ideas if u find my post worthless of youre time..

1. Yes i do, i read it a few times before replying, your " humble request" is to get what keeps crusaders 100% alive burping because they "tank" anyone, by anyone you mean normal players, lower grade demi's and now the dual weild camps?
Well, i think your just saying higher gemmed demi's and legends.

2. So you have no idea that crusader has lower def then a champion? You have no idea that we are build on low hp and that our dodge keeps us alive?

3. i'm not refering to your post, i'm refering to every single day speech coming from a champions mouth in game.

4. Okay, I'm sorry, let me go make a champ for you, mall the exact sam set and gems as you and run around crying "champs suck" in the pk map.

Lastly, I'm not raging, nor asking for nerfing, I'm saying your "humble request" is just having a sook about that a crusader is build on low hp, low def, high dodge and attack speed.
Please tell me, if you had the same hp and def gain as a crusader, would you not want dodge because you aren't being hit 24's with your 50+k hp 5k+ def and 60 odd pr?
Your hp and def is our dodge and attack speed.

p.s: I'm not three, do not attempt to treat me as such.

u see ppl say's champs are "OP"
so GM's n3rfed champs
now that champs are not OP anymore
its the cruzes that are OP now
with good forge
u can have
600-700 dodge,
1.5k-2k def
and...10k-14k max (buff poss)
a non-maller cruz can get this stats
so how would a champs with
3k def
370dodge
460 hit rate
10k max (buff poss)
can kill a dodge full of cruz with almost
same def and max as a cruz
so should GM n3rf them too?
ofc not.... because majority of
players in server are Cruz
its just
1 change leads to another.....

let me correct my self
its 800-1k def for cruz
1.5k-2kdef is legend like XDD

Prolonged wrote:

Hey Pacaplog, you mad bro? It's certainly I seem that you are!

You won't understand how hard for non-maller players to farm not like you PACA, wasting hundreds of fucking DC

im a non maller like you.. so dont tell me that i dont understand..





like i said on my previous post..

FOR EVERYONE: if you wanna put more spice and flames in this thread ive posted, you are very much welcome to do so.. but since if you have nothing good to say, just keep ur opinions to urselves and ignore my post.. this is my request not yours.. instead of seeking more attention which doesnt solve any problems at all, just try to give out better ideas if u find my post worthless of youre time..




My Sincere Apologies to Elise.. we've completely gotten into the wrong side of the bed.. just do what you got to do.. i'll be doing mine.. again sorry for the inconvenience i may have caused you.. see you more in game..



@Batosay : like GM Team had said.. lets just cope with the changes as if nothing happened.. (not exact words but the thought is the same)

xMayy wrote:


1. Yes i do, i read it a few times before replying, your " humble request" is to get what keeps crusaders 100% alive burping because they "tank" anyone, by anyone you mean normal players, lower grade demi's and now the dual weild camps?
Well, i think your just saying higher gemmed demi's and legends.

2. So you have no idea that crusader has lower def then a champion? You have no idea that we are build on low hp and that our dodge keeps us alive?

3. i'm not refering to your post, i'm refering to every single day speech coming from a champions mouth in game.

4. Okay, I'm sorry, let me go make a champ for you, mall the exact sam set and gems as you and run around crying "champs suck" in the pk map.

Lastly, I'm not raging, nor asking for nerfing, I'm saying your "humble request" is just having a sook about that a crusader is build on low hp, low def, high dodge and attack speed.
Please tell me, if you had the same hp and def gain as a crusader, would you not want dodge because you aren't being hit 24's with your 50+k hp 5k+ def and 60 odd pr?
Your hp and def is our dodge and attack speed.

p.s: I'm not three, do not attempt to treat me as such.

eli my friend, i got ur point, hopefully in time you get my side of the story.. i respect ur opinions and im sorry for being stubborn to listen to urs, but believe me when i say i do get ur point.. hopefully u'll respect mine as well.. anyways, kudos for voicing out urs..

one of my opinion is...
champs get max gemming the 2handed sword just 3 kind of gems...
Crus gem a 2 swords... 6 kind of gems for max
Cler can gem boots, gloves armor and wep... its ok for me cus they need high sp to tank and resist.. kinda the same with sm..
SS can gem on wep and gloves..... 6 kind of gems for max
and well Voy same as sm and i dont got problems with that

but how we can fight with just 3 kind of gems for max when other mele clases can get 6 kind of gems for max?? is fair that?? and like other ppl say some other non-champ users tanking high max even wth dk without shield.... fair?

Here i Am to give An ANSWER (Well im gonna answer to some things i saw here without quoting cause i dont know how to do it )

WELL.....
First to make an intro:
Official Server has 10x the GMs are here and have to be ready for 20x players are there. So i think they have done good job on balancing chars there for everyone (supernab,nab,good,maller,god) and so on balancing the skills with the equipped stuff. So Ashley i think that GMs ehre, ofc they should CHECK official and so on continue to make server special.

I wanna start with PACAs request: As a continue of the intro..this change happened to champs cause in official some skills getting burst when eqquipped 2 swords cause of tanking +max. If Crus(or any other class) have same thing on official i think they should do it too,else i dont think it will work.

For SS (answers to some i saw): SS dont have any skill that raising def or hp or hit rate or anything. Its only what build chooses to go. So if u want to do a change on a SS that "TANKS" 14k max because he is legend,he has lvl 6 frosts in hat and shoes and flames(so he keeps his max on con) DO IT only if u think same gemmed crus or champ wouldnt PWN the same.

As for SrJoo : Indeed All chars has at least 2 parts to gem their attack gems and champs has only 1.

My opinion in that (considering Joo), is to be a change or a new skill that adds only hp or smth.

P.S: i check when i can at champs how much they can tank on 2 swords (not a legend one) and havent a result till now. ty i hope it was a serious answer to ur interesting topic paca beast

i have hear tons of time gm will add new skills and things like that and what happend? nothing..
for my opinion at least let champs can forge chip rage and rage in gloves so our slash will be good and its kinda fair cus our hitrate will suck so crus will still dodge our hit same as a high agi/dodge gemmed ss

+1 for
chip rage and rage in gloves
sacrifice ur hitrate to get more slash

Bato wrote:+1 for
chip rage and rage in gloves

More str gems on gloves means that champions who already have the capacity to reach 21,000 Max will be able to reach 24,000-29,000 Damage.

We have concluded that champions are not underpowered at the moment.
They are still stronger than characters of other classes with the same equipments.

Champions can still
-deal maximum amount of Damage possible for a melee class due to the large Str progression bonus
-tank damage and do high damage in 2Handed weapon mode where Bloodbull and Primal rage (Long range stun-damage skill) are active
-tank damage in Str \ Con \ Con-Str modes with\without shields and with\without con pets

needless to say tanks like paper

If a champion does "tank like paper", it is when fighting a character which is much more upgraded than the champion or when a +18 champion expects to tank a +27 legend. And if champions cannot tank when on Strength mode, then don't complain because they are meant to deal damage, not tank immense damage in that mode.

If a melee character with the same grade equipments can break your champion on full con mode, then complain and we will look into it.

ok so do u consider the

skill reset for champs????
now that its gona be permanent and we cant do RB2
that easy so we are stuck with a lvl 3 gr8t sword mastery
and no howl
this is not our fault because b4 we dint need any of this skill
so kindly consider this 1