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Post by jumpey on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:40 pm

hi gm's and players im making this in the hopes that you will consider this update for sm's as you know there are not many sm's in game and the ones that are in game dont pk much as they don't have the defense to do so. as a sm player when im gemed lvl 5-6 gems in equip and i get killed in 1-2 sec by a ss with the same or even less geming it makes me want to quit more and more for good. i am requesting that you give sm's a better def boost per con i have about 460 con with only 1.3k def. as i cant log in game as the launcher is not working for me at this sec i cant post a screen shot. plz gm all sm's want is more def plz let us have it

here is a ss of my stats and how low my def is
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Last edited by jumpey on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a ss)

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Post by [GM]Connor on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:10 pm

A few months back, the complaints were that Seal masters were overpowered and tanking +27 Legends. Now the opposite, when no changes were made to them any time recently.

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Post by jumpey on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:18 pm

the ONLY sm that could possibly have tanked a +27 legend is honest the ONLY legend sm in the game. am i right and amy outher sm in gam wil die instantly to a lvl +27 legend i do. how many sm do you know can even tank a legend huu give me names i know what om talking about sm's are paper when it comes 2 def they are in no way OP we just need a bit of a def boost that is all. and my sm only has a 5-6k bolt thats it on con mode 7k on spr

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Post by Mer on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:02 pm

I agree. Makin sm skills the way they are in top would be nice too. 3 secs mini stun on soe *.*
Were they ever overpowered? I get sometimes one slashed on full con mode with 1.6k def 47k hp n around 55 pr by a same lvl gemmed cruz o.o
well. I can take just 8k max slash with havin like 3k hp left .-.

*grabs cheerleader's pom-poms* Go jumpey! Go jumpey! Go. Go, Go Jumpey!

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Post by Honest on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:47 pm

Nah i cant tank at all iam 27+ both armor and cap there r people not even demis can break me and kill me by just 1 stun in ca ,SM was tanky because of the frozen effect in EK before the N erf but since it was removed i cant tank at all even in my full con mode i die by 5 sec or 8 >.>
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Post by xJirax on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:10 pm

Honest wrote:Nah i cant tank at all iam 27+ both armor and cap there r people not even demis can break me and kill me by just 1 stun in ca ,SM was tanky because of the frozen effect in EK before the N erf but since it was removed i cant tank at all even in my full con mode i die by 5 sec or 8 >.>

You said In ca but hows ur tanking abilities outside ca?

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Post by Mer on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:01 pm

I "tank" better in ca than outside e_e

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Post by Honest on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:26 pm

Still the same most of demis can kill me with 1 stun ~
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Post by SpiritReaper on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:36 pm

Killing honest with 7.6k max on sword and sheild. Slow but he was dying Smile.

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Post by Honest on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:07 pm

Haha damn i thought ur on 2 swords >.> thats why ur attack speed was low but u hit hard XD ,btw gratz on 27+ swords
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Post by SpiritReaper on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:47 pm

LoL I only gemmed 2h wep to +27 to see if its better then DUal. Again it fails. If I knew howl would still be piss weak I would leave it lv2 or 1 and get the extra 40 hr Smile. Primal and BB only decent skills on that mode. I have yet to test if this new taunt works on players or its just a waste of skill points. Too many Prerequisite skills required for champion.

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Post by PledgeAllegianceToTheSwag on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:05 pm

I GOT MORE DEF THAN HONEST... and he's an SM... sweetmaster..

They need more def!

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Post by Honest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:22 pm

Haha the problem ur spr lil XD and iam full con and yet u got higher defense ;/ ,i think maybe it might be the frost soul but if i removed souls from gloves and shoes i will lose alot of dmg since sm cant do high bolt also
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Post by SpiritReaper on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:37 pm

Conner after PR system changed many classes Became SQUISH.

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Post by Honest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:16 pm

Yeah i liked the old pr before >.>
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Post by PledgeAllegianceToTheSwag on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:17 pm

im an SS.. im SgtSwagger

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Post by SexyJo on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:16 pm

legend sms doesnt tank +27 legends...

i do tank more than honestand i dont tank +27 legends at all so how come he does?
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Post by SpiritReaper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:44 am

I like Pr system now. Now With 20k Max ppls actually die. Before Legend on con pet used to tank my max with con flasks. Doesn't help that the rec pet completely renders an entire class useless because rec works so dam well. The MS is way too high and the rec chance way too high + its still healing people.

Then we got dark pet that's SUPER OP on a cleric bolt. Its cleric and SM combined into one class with a far effective seal DMG and DEFENCE. Thunder pet only really offers 15 extra stats hardly OP or game changing. Has by far the most useless effect especially when some players are forced onto con.

I got a suggestion for the rear pets.
Spirit of light remove speed bonus, change rec chance to work every 25-30 secs regardless of having an condition on the player the moment they are in a pk map.
Spirit of Thunder remove lighting effect and add speed boost every 25-30 sec for 5 sec's when in a battle zone
Spirit of darkness (SS, CRUS, CHAMP) Elder seal only when on melee at 10% chance for 5 seconds.
Spirit of Darkness (Voy, Cleric, SM) On Bolts, shadow insignia 30% for 5 secs

It will allow SM class to be MASTERS of seals, the person also has to be attacking with dark pet to fire it off. Effect doesn't trigger any more 2 seconds after receiving damage from person with pet. Give bonus stats to the pets to make it worth 100 DC and so one pet is not weaker then the other stat wise. Fix the HR bug ppls get from Honor pet that doesn't require them to need glove gems.

My opnion crus gets too many bonuses (900 attk speed with champ max attack) Its the only class that's Never had to be rebalanced due to new Items but its one ppls complain about more then champs. Champs had high stats blah OP one way but Never had long lasting disables or the attk speed to make full use of there 22k max (prior to first burp)

Sm's would be fine If walking into abyss mire also did 1% of current hp dmg in that Aoe while standing in the area. Give them some more DMG skills or some Ultimate seal with uber long CD to purchase as an advance skill. Dunno but just my suggestions.

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Post by Honest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:09 am

Ah true >.< ,it just this honor pet ruined the game and its balance T_T
but i like ur idea about Abyess mire do 1% dmg and i use abyess alot XD
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Post by jumpey on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:05 pm

would be fun to have damage on mire but i sill say SM just need more def
1 more def point per con would be good

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Post by Saeryn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:36 pm

Totally agree with Sam's suggestions.

SM is the weakest class on this server and the fact that you can count the active ones using only your fingers is more than enough proof.

Defense per con definitely needs to be raised.
Now, regarding the skills, I would suggest the following changes:

- Increase damage output of Shadow Insignia. The current rates were suitable for the official, but in this server people are greatly gemmed and have massive amounts of hp - thus rendering Shadow Insignia's damage a joke.
- I support Sam's idea to add damage on Abyss Mire.
- Also fix/increase damage of the Sealmaster Rebirth skill. It does around 800hp on first hit and damage over time is 35. That's equal to no damage, even for new players. Basically, the only thing the rb skill is good for, at this moment, is unstealthing.

To sum up, Sealmasters cannot compete with the damage dealt by clerics or voys (the other magic classes) and their defense doesn't even make up for that. They die too fast and can't kill. The only thing they could be used for is seals and debuffs, but people already have spirit pets for that.
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Post by SpiritReaper on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Refer to my spirit pet suggestion. It might help take the OP ASPECTS away and with a stat boost on ech pet still be worth the 100 DC.

I got a suggestion for the rear pets.
Spirit of light remove speed
bonus, change rec chance to work every 25-30 secs regardless of having
an condition on the player the moment they are in a pk map.
Spirit of Thunder remove lighting effect and add speed boost every 25-30 sec for 5 sec's when in a battle zone
Spirit of darkness (SS, CRUS, CHAMP) Elder seal only when on melee at 10% chance for 5 seconds.
Spirit of Darkness (Voy, Cleric, SM) On Bolts, shadow insignia 30% for 5 secs

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Post by jumpey on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:11 am

sam i understand what you are saying about the rear pets and yes they do need 2 be reworked, but i made this topic for sm improvements only so can we get back on topic for it

GM's SM's need more def 1 more def point per con would be a good start 2 fixing the prob cuz lets face it there is very few active SM in game i think i can count the active ones that mater on my fingers

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Post by Honest on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:24 am

Agree with jumpey ~ and yes there are less than 5 people sms in server that proves alot its the weakest class in game and noone wanna play it anymore
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Post by SpiritReaper on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:41 am

Not weak but not over powering strong. Problem with the class is if its going to have weak def should have % base dmg skills for DOT. Shadow insig should do bare min of 1.5k for legends and 1k for non for duration of skill. Seal of elder have the mini stun like it did in top of the 2 secs and the legend bonus could add 1.5 secs more.

Spirit Of Light completely cancels out an entire class and with more enemy's in the fray the pet goes crazy with rec and speed bonuses. Rec skill its self requires it to be cast on the person and has a CD longer then spirit of light. It also requires the supporter your relying on not to get stunned or sealed. If you want to make Classes more playable for newbs to vs legends in big maps have a bare min amount of dmg skills will do to a person regardless of weather they break them or not in melee. IS min of 3k dmg after 210 attk speed. Just how there is static dmg there can be features like this that wont make them feel uber useless.

I think cleric should be more support orientated then the SM and that's why I agree they are fine as they are. Sm needs some DOT instead of defence considering with bd effect seals last forever. They dont also need to tank when they completely disable any class.

Improvements to con flasks in npc would be better as 1k hp does next to nothing with characters on high hp. Again Ill mention the spirit pets as they are half the reason SM is unplayable in group pk battles.

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Post by SpiritReaper on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:43 am

I was using illusion slash as an example and didnt proof read my poor grammar. Live with it XD.

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Post by Saeryn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:14 am

Well, we can't really disable "any class" (at all times). I mean, ok, we can completely seal one person, but until our seals cd we've died 3 times over if more than 1 enemies are involved... The only "defense" we have until our seals cd is our bolt, which (unless you're greatly gemmed with spr) is useless. That's why we need some more defense.

And I don't mention abyss or any other skill (as means of survival) because on this server, all of our debuffs do next to nothing on almost everyone - due to extremely high stats.
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Post by SpiritReaper on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:55 am

Depending on equips you choose in this server depends on survivability. Sm in BD corp with frozen hat is probably more nasty then a ek sm in terms on tanking. Still get BD seals and get to freeze melee attacks. Get decent con gems in hat and torso and defence in boots and gloves yous can still hit 11k bolt in the end.(Max Gemming) With decent DOTS it would make the class more enjoyable and useful. Firstly rec pets need a burp to see where SM is really at.

Hard to gauge a class when so few people play the class, with 3-4 different equipment builds. Over all class needs a buff but how big or how little does it need it? Cant forget you share same herbalist skills as your cleric counterparts. Therefor you got more defensive options (Recover harden etc). My bet is you can get a sm with +27 equipment to 5k+ defence. Class Needs Dmg more then anything.

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Post by Zyncolicious on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:03 am

in terms of tanking, the best combo for a magic class is Holy kylin with frozen kylin
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Post by jumpey on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Zyncolicious wrote:in terms of tanking, the best combo for a magic class is Holy kylin with frozen kylin


umm for a voy or cleric that wight work for a sm you want bd set and Hk helm or HK set and the mall BD helm you can also go BD set and frozen helm

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Post by Serge... on Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:39 am

Saeryn wrote:SM is the weakest class on this server and the fact that you can count the active ones using only your fingers is more than enough proof.

SMs were never a popular class in PKO/TOP.
One of ten players were SM.

The reason is simple, they are support, and you will never have a protagonist role playing as a support class.
And so, people tend to select more active classes.

They are not designed to be a complete character.

Originally, none of the 6 classes were.
DK and HK effects just killed the purpose of Clerics and Seal Masters.
Which were Buff and Seal.

Thats why its so difficult to adjust them to play a highger stage role.

Even tho, i always thought a left hand gear should be developed for Magic Classes, at least in a Test Server.
Not a shield cuz that will kill champs, but something like a Book or an Orb.
That can increase their SP amount and SPR points to deal more damage with a bolt.
And i would give them a second magical attack. Like primal rage for champs. A magic strike that can match an Illusion Slash.
Cuz honestly, bolts are like the normal melee for all the other classes.
That will mimic the voyager play style without the AoE attack.

And since all classes are chasing to be treated equally, i suggest the Godness Rings and Unseal Rings to have the same PR boost.
Downgrade the high ones or upgrade the low ones, but balance them.
Death Sets were already balanced. So the GRs would be fair aswell.

Thats a few of what comes to my mind about this issue.
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Post by xMayy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:34 am

I semi agree with you there Astral.

Book,orb, glove.
Not meaning to rip off another game or introduce another game to players.
But look.

Summoner from the game Bxxxx Of Ixxxxxx
a nouther SM topic  2ry4ykw

And Duelist from it's counterpart game uses a claw/glove.
There should be a way to edit the magical damage onto an item with out adding insane amount of spirit.

What i dis agree with is that SM's we made to be support. Yes, they have buffs, but they have debuffs! that isn't support, they were made to ballance the cleric class, being offensive magic hence the debuffs and seals.
they should have a little less dmg then clerics.

But in EO they have been downgraded, or not even changed!
where as clerics got some 10% dmg reduct while on ES, they got freeze that lasts pretty long(just crappy CD *lol*)

So i agree with changing staff to 1h and having an off hand weapon/ dmg support item.

But this is my view on the seal master class here at EO

they need a small incremental to their def, and more bolt dmg, and a 2ndry skill(cleric also with the 2nd dmg skill)
So make skill seal to a DECENT (500 spr = 4.2k dmg[EXAMPLE!]) amount of dmg.

If SM are support, then they do NOT have enough "support" in their skills.
Abyss mire is not support, a ss or a crus will still charge in, if a flock of seagulls(players) get hit a seal master does not have a aoe seal. so their seals will be useless and mire will not stop, cause honestly seal master is slow as pudding aha.

So they need one AOE melee skill(magic can still pow on eht).
They need MASS increase to Elder seal(?) damage. and/or small 2nd offense skill.

hope i made sense, i kinda lost my self a few.
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Post by Honest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:43 am

@ Serge who said sm is support ? sm is offtank character with alot of CC and its very good for 1 vs 1 ,but with all those effect in this game make our CC very useless and we dont tank at all , havent u heared of magica ,and ceci in TOP ?
@ may awesome pic ! and yes i like the ideas sm shouldnt be support class in EO we should get more dmg in our skills and more defense
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Post by SpiritReaper on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:19 am

Yous dont really Need more defence. 5.5k on Full con at +27 is more then plenty. Its equal to that of a crusaders. (Refer to GM's Example pic in forum) If your going for that defence build having the basic original stun on seal and dmg on the other one would be a good starting point. Having Dmg on cursed fire and mire should give the class the DOT's it needs.

Agree with Sm needing buff in other areas other then Defense. There should only be one tanking class in this server.

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Post by Honest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am

SAM iam 27+ on con and i get 3,8k defense so no its very low and who said sm is tanker i said shes OFFtank not full tank even crussaders and SS can tank more than sm now and have more hp that ridiculous
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Post by SpiritReaper on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:01 am

Dun make sense to be that low if your class is meant to be sharing same con progression as a Crusader. From what was said in forum it was tested so I assumed it was still the case.

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Post by xMayy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:07 am

3.8k def!? That is low as!
my ss less then half the forge I want it I'm at 4.3k

Let me relpymore detail later, m on my mobile >.>
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Post by Honest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:08 am

there is no way sm con same as cruss am very 100% sure we have lower hp and con i know some crusses who got way less con than mine they got 9k more hp and more defense also ,SM was good in bso cuz of frozen effect but since it was removen i couldnt tank at all and i cant switch to spr i die easily by ppl not even legend even lil can tank more than me in spr only and lil is a paper XD
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Post by Honest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:10 am

may u might have frosts in gloves and boots i dont have that and i cant put them in if i put frosts and removed spr gem soul i would get waaaaaaaay less than my 3k bolt in ca >.>
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Post by Serge... on Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm

Honest wrote:@ Serge who said sm is support ? sm is offtank character with alot of CC and its very good for 1 vs 1 ,but with all those effect in this game make our CC very useless and we dont tank at all , havent u heared of magica ,and ceci in TOP ?

Its not about what people says.
It about how the game was designed.
Clerics and SM were always meant to be support, otherwise, they would had another attack skill than just Spiritual Bolt.
Every attack class have at least 2 Attack skills.

Again, its not like im undestimating those class, its how the game is designed.
For example, in MapleStory you can make a magic class and you can always solo everything.
In Diablo too.

Here in EO, GMs did make an effort to turn them to a main attack class.

But my point is, they are not originally a main attack class. Thats what i say.

And yeah, i met Magica and Ceci.
They were also mallers.

The point of this thread is to discuss about the non maller SMs.
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Post by xMayy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:02 pm

Honest wrote:may u might have frosts in gloves and boots i dont have that and i cant put them in if i put frosts and removed spr gem soul i would get waaaaaaaay less than my 3k bolt in ca >.>

At the moment, my only frost soul is level 6 in my EK cap.
I haven't even added frosts to my boots/gloves o.0
i'm con based 100 con 94-97 acc ( i forget i haven;t seen my base stats in a loooong time)


Last edited by xMayy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:41 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Too much to drink and i'm triple wording)
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Post by Honest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:15 pm

wow damn >.< zzzz we really need more con and hp
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Post by xMayy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:49 pm

I don't like talking about my forge but here it is based on a sharp shooter with full eternal kylin and a lvl 100 gun/bow.

Cap:
lv7 Azreal Undead
lv6 Great Colo
lv6 Frost Soul

Torso:
lv9 BD-Soul
Lv9 Great Colo
lv9 Azreal Undead

Boots:
lv8 Gem of Wind
lv6-8 Chipped Gem of Wind( i forget what level xD)
lv4-5 Azreal Dance

Gloves:
Lv5 Azreal Aggr
lv8 Chipped Gem Of Strike
lv 9 Gem Of Striking

Gun:
Gems dont matter they dont add con or def.
but the gun is 32(?) con
and bow is 28-30 con.
100 con base rest into acc.

14 stats 250 def from honor pet.
25 stats from got realm
and those insane long list of stats from legend insignia.

all in all with lvl 77 CON ajr i hit 79-81k hp 4.3k def 64-65 pr.

So yes, SM's need a def n hp buff.
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Post by jumpey on Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:13 pm

gm i will keep bringing this up till something is done SM NEED MORE DEF Sad

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Post by SpiritReaper on Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:21 am

They dont need more. More Damage on skills but not more Defence.

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Post by [GM]Connor on Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:51 am

Seal Masters already have the same Defense buildup as Crusaders.
They have been upgraded to the same as Sharpshooters now as part of testing.
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Post by SpiritReaper on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:33 am

They dont need more. -.- . 5.5k not enough on full +27 they going for 6k + (I am talking full not hat and just torso) Eli already tanks close to 15k max (HIGHEST POSSIBLE MAX FOR 2h CHAMP) with +18 gloves boots. Sure she lost max and her highest be about 16k but they still get 50k hs. SM HAS MAGIC DMG AND ENDLESS SEAL + CRIPLE ON BOLT BLAH BLAH ABYSS MIRE and RECOVER.

Whats a fuking tank get other then more NeRfing. Upgrade tanks if SM getting Buff. Dont see Us getting Free skill resets for your changes. Didn't leave people much of a choice with either CA style PK in every map or this.

Where is the Fuking Sorry for making me loose 59k hp chunks of defence. I fuking donated probably more then most people in server and yous had no decency to personally apologize. Now your going to make every class tank our pitful max at fuking End game unless we go dual weps where we die in 2 secs anyway. No win for my fuking class. UNLESS YOU CHUBBYTOM or BLOODRAYNE who some same reason more OP then the average +27 character.

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Post by Honest on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:44 am

Sam who said we have 5,5k defense ? i barley reached 4k + with my rear pet and iam 27+ isnt this unfair ? people get 1k higher defense (SS) and they arent even 27+ yes we needed defense buff Smile
and sam please stop whining about it ur already can kill rayne and ivy EASILY i saw it with my own eyes .... you just want to be immortal thats all... and that wont happen isnt 21k dmg enough for you ? stop being greedy and think of other classes , SGT ,mishy ,ely cant kill u on ur STR mode lmao just keep playing sam without whinging about other classes ne rfs or buffs
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Post by SpiritReaper on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:51 am

Your not full +27. KILL IVY EASY WHEN? I DONT EVEN HIT HER LOL. THIS LAST BS ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE TANK MORE IS ****. I AM NOT A FUKING CRUS WITH 900 ATTK SPEED 900 DODGE 129k HP LIKE A FUKING CHAMPION ON DUAL SWORD. ITS FUKED MAKING PEOPLE TANK MORE. SO *** THIS ****.

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Post by Honest on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:57 am

omg why so negative gm said it only a test >.> ,and sam you said it urself if u got honor pet noone can stop you we have chubbytom as an example for 27+ champ with honor pet Smile
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